Desired volumes ?

[Lyndsay Member Find all posts View Profile Close Lyndsay]

Help me here please [emoji846]
I searched some threads and came across this
"When using a priming calculator you will need 3 pieces of information: 1. Desired volumes CO2, 2. Beer temperature, and 3. Beer volume.

The desired volumes CO2 will depend on your beer style and personal preference (you can google volumes CO2 for different beer styles or look in most brewing books). Most recipes will also prescribe a carbonation level in volumes CO2."

I would like to understand this CO2 level concept.
What is too little? What will make the bottles explode (don't want that)

Then temp. I notice that it is SERVING temp. Interesting.
So the beer could theoretically stand on the shelf until ready to serve. Put in the fridge, get to desired temp and shanana.
[emoji2957]

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[CaPunT Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CaPunT]

I use this every time i batch prime (since running out of carb drops!)

https://www.brewersfriend.com/beer-priming-calculator/

I believe it explains it nicely.

My 2c on carbonation:

Too little? I think that is really up to preference, as well as beer style. I prefer slightly lower carbonation in general... but nobody wants a flat Weiss (higher carbonation style) as it affects the flavour.
As for too much, the I wouldn't go above 4vol CO2 for the standard brown 440ml glass bottles.

Perhaps someone here has the exact ratings? Ultimately it does depend on the thickness of the glass. Have a look at a Paulaner bottle for example.

[Beachless Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beachless]

The 3 main things to consider as you state are temperature, style and bottle specs.

Serving temperature will dictate how much CO2 can dissolve into the beer and should be considered based on style.

Style will determine how you want the CO2 to affect the beer style like adding mouth feel for wheat beers for instance.

Bottle specs, some are rated as low as 2.5 volumes but the thicker returnable ones are fine for 3.5 and a bit more depending on bottle.

[Langchop Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Langchop]

2.5 is a typical cover all kind of volume of carbonation that won't be flat and won't leave you with beer bombs in your pantry. It varies up and down from there for different styles.

The temperature is a more interesting one. The idea being that your beer already has residual carbonation which is carbon dioxide dissolved in the beer already even though it's not under pressure. Unlike sugar dissolving in water, beer can hold less dissolved co2 when it's warmer. So if the beer warms up, some of the dissolved co2 comes out of solution and you have less residual co2 in the beer. So the temperature you use in calcs should be 'the warmest temperature the beer has been at since being exposed to an active co2 source.'(ie. Fermentation). A diacetyl rest will typically throw this spanner in the mix.

This residual volume of co2 is then deducted from the volumes you require, before you calculate how much priming sugar to use.

[Dewald Posthumus Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dewald Posthumus]

The temperature is a more interesting one. The idea being that your beer already has residual carbonation which is carbon dioxide dissolved in the beer already even though it's not under pressure. Unlike sugar dissolving in water, beer can hold less dissolved co2 when it's warmer. So if the beer warms up, some of the dissolved co2 comes out of solution and you have less residual co2 in the beer. So the temperature you use in calcs should be 'the warmest temperature the beer has been at since being exposed to an active co2 source.'(ie. Fermentation). A diacetyl rest will typically throw this spanner in the mix.

This residual volume of co2 is then deducted from the volumes you require, before you calculate how much priming sugar to use.

At the OP - Langchop hits the nail on the head here. As a beginner brewer and without a fermenting chamber, I used to bottle at fermenting temperature (18), and would need a lot more sugar when bottling. Fast forward to having a fridge and cold crashing the beer down to 1 degree, you need a lot less sugar to carbonate. Best is to drink some of your beer whilst bottling, there is a huge difference in carbonation between 18 and 1 degree beer out of the fermenter.

There is also a big difference in carbonation when you bottle your beer. In the beginning of lockdown I turned out a quick Weiss beer, and bottled within a week, there was still a lot of yeast in suspension and the beer carbonated within 3 days! Green, but carbonated. If you stick to a schedule, ie. 10 days in primary and bottle at 18 degrees, you should get a consistent carbonation result.

[Mouter Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mouter]

Stupid question(s); how and when do I batch prime? I’ve been using dextrose measured with a priming cup thingy and poured in bottle by bottle through a funnel. It works fine, but is time consuming. If I dissolve the same total amount of dextrose in cooled boiled water and add it to the fermenter (I bottle from primary), how do I ensure even mixing into the beer without oxidation, stirring up sediment and kick-starting fermentation again too soon before bottling?

[JIGSAW Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JIGSAW]

Breaking Bad ... Science bitch ....

[paul.stevens Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close paul.stevens]

Stupid question(s); how and when do I batch prime? I’ve been using dextrose measured with a priming cup thingy and poured in bottle by bottle through a funnel. It works fine, but is time consuming. If I dissolve the same total amount of dextrose in cooled boiled water and add it to the fermenter (I bottle from primary), how do I ensure even mixing into the beer without oxidation, stirring up sediment and kick-starting fermentation again too soon before bottling?

I usually mix the sugar into my fermenter a few hours before bottling, The 2 - 3 hours between adding the bottling sugar and bottling has had no negative effect on my beer since I stared doing it that way. My bottling process is as follows.

1. Move fermenter to table for bottling.
2. Make sanitiser in a bucket and place everything I'll be using in it.
3. Mix measured amount of bottling sugar with some boiled/distilled water.
4. Pour cooled sugar water into beer and stir gently but thoroughly with sanitised stirring spoon
5. Place *Clean* bottles in dishwasher and set to high temp cycle to sanitise bottles.
6. Wait *2-3 hours* for stirred up trub from step 3 to settle back down and sugar to dissipate completely.
7. Start bottling into bottles that just came out of dishwasher.

[Lyndsay Member Find all posts View Profile Close Lyndsay]

"So the temperature you use in calcs should be 'the warmest temperature the beer has been at since being exposed to an active co2 source.'(ie. Fermentation)."

Ok, I'm a bit lost
I understood as per my initial post is the calc based on SERVING temp.
You say no, but at a higher temp eg: where it was stored at.?? / bottled at?
Or not?

Does this "undisolved co2" "redisolve" when the beer is cooled again.
So the same two beers opened at the same time but a vastly different temps will produce different head?

Secondly, I have stored the bottled product "in a warm dark place" for a week as advised.
Must this be done?
I'm fermenting at say 19°. Then storing at 25° for a week, then fridging at 7°

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[CaPunT Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CaPunT]

"So the temperature you use in calcs should be 'the warmest temperature the beer has been at since being exposed to an active co2 source.'(ie. Fermentation)."

Ok, I'm a bit lost
I understood as per my initial post is the calc based on SERVING temp.
You say no, but at a higher temp eg: where it was stored at.?? / bottled at?
Or not?

Does this "undisolved co2" "redisolve" when the beer is cooled again.
So the same two beers opened at the same time but a vastly different temps will produce different head?

Secondly, I have stored the bottled product "in a warm dark place" for a week as advised.
Must this be done?
I'm fermenting at say 19°. Then storing at 25° for a week, then fridging at 7°

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Lets say you have 2 beers fermenting, one ale at 20deg, and one lager at 14deg. Lets also say you want to have them both in the "Goldilocks zone" of 2.5 vol.
When the time comes to bottle them, assuming you have not cold crashed either, the large will have a higher dissolved CO2 level than that of the ale(based on their temps).

Therefore, in order to have each bottle at final 2.5vol, you will have to add more priming sugar to the ALE than you would for the larger.

The serving temp will just dictate how much CO2 will be be available in your beer, and how long it will remain there once opened. If its warmer, there will be more CO2 in the headspace to begin with, and it will foam more and get flat quicker.

If you primed for a certain final CO2 vol, and took your bottling temperature into account (as required per the calculators), then it doesn't matter what temp you store it at, the overall CO2 vol in the bottle will be what you primed it for.

Hope that helps?

[Lyndsay Member Find all posts View Profile Close Lyndsay]

It does, thankyou very much

So the starting temp is a "baseline" - ie at time of bottling
I have also read that different types of beers will have different disolved CO2 levels which also makes sense
It would also stand to reason that it will ALL DEPEND on how you followed the process and a number of factor will play role such as SG, Yeast, fermentation temp etc etc...

How would one then determine this base line.
I could possibly have brewed identical batches side by side and have different starting CO2 levels

[JIGSAW Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JIGSAW]

Did you watch the video I posted at #7 ?

[Mouter Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mouter]

I usually mix the sugar into my fermenter a few hours before bottling, The 2 - 3 hours between adding the bottling sugar and bottling has had no negative effect on my beer since I stared doing it that way. My bottling process is as follows.

1. Move fermenter to table for bottling.
2. Make sanitiser in a bucket and place everything I'll be using in it.
3. Mix measured amount of bottling sugar with some boiled/distilled water.
4. Pour cooled sugar water into beer and stir gently but thoroughly with sanitised stirring spoon
5. Place *Clean* bottles in dishwasher and set to high temp cycle to sanitise bottles.
6. Wait *2-3 hours* for stirred up trub from step 3 to settle back down and sugar to dissipate completely.
7. Start bottling into bottles that just came out of dishwasher.

Thanks!


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[Lyndsay Member Find all posts View Profile Close Lyndsay]

Did you watch the video I posted at #7 ?

No[emoji52]
I'm was browsing on my phone and for some or other reason I could not open the link.

Let me do that first [emoji16]

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[Langchop Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Langchop]

Interesting vid Jigsaw. I kinda believe it, within limits. Admittedly I never cold crash before bottling, just too much more curveball than I can handle before doing calcs. I think he is using the low temps to ensure he is always on the safe side, and at the end of the day, the approx 0.4 vols residual co2 is less significant than the approx 2.1vols you will be adding with priming.
Having watched that, I would almost want to err on using a temp between 'warmest temp' and the crash temp?

Lyndsay,: I could possibly have brewed identical batches side by side and have different starting CO2 levels

Same temps, and allowed to properly complete fermentation, I would imagine they would both be pretty identical.